Why was the dresden bombings a war crime?

Answer 1

Because the Americans and British on one side and the Russians on the other were in a fierce competition as to who has the most firepower and most airplanes and bombs and can destroy the most German cities in a given period period of time. It may sound as a mockery but it is the historic truth. The city of Dresden was entirely destroyed and 130.000 German civilians perished in a huge wirlwind of fire created by unrelented bombing by American and British pilots. They wanted to wipe the city off the map in one day only to put on a show for the Russians and demonstrate their military might. The Russians also flexed their military muscle in the face of the Western Allies by leveling Belin in a 2-day air bombing campaign. So why was Dresded bombed? Because it happened to be there, and it happened to be German, and the Americans needed a shooting range that the Russians could take a peek at. Sad. *EDIT* Ah the wonder of a Left Wing Education. For the record. I am an accredited and published researcher with access to the Public Records Office at Kew near London. Researched answer below. The biggest problem with dealing with the matter of the bombing of Germany is that it is judged against modern morals and standards of behaviour. Civilians have suffered during war from the beginning of time. When the barbarians sacked Rome they slaughtered men women and children. When the French stormed Spanish towns during the peninsular war the citizens inside were killed and the towns raped and pillaged. The powers during the 19th century and the early 20th laid down ever more stringent rules about conduct during war trying to prevent these excesses but until the Geneva Convention came along there were no hard and fast "rules of war". In 1945 the Geneva Convention did not prohibit the general bombing of a town to destroy its industrial capacity. We have to look at Dresden in the light of the morality of the time. Some people in Dresden and elsewhere claim that the Bombing of Dresden by the RAF AND the USAAF is a war crime. In my opinion it was not

I am not in any way denying the fact that what happened in Dresden was horrific and appalling. I do deny that the men who undertook the mission have any crime to answer for.

The bombing of Dresden has been used since 1945 as a tool to beat the RAF about its conduct of "terror bombing" during WW2. The bombing of an industrialized town from the air in an attempt to destroy its industry or cause such loss of morale amongst its inhabitants that they ceased to work was NOT a crime by the Rules of War in 1945. The bombing of Coventry, London and other British Cities in 1940 and 1941 was also NOT a War Crime. Within Europe we did not have the "industrial areas" afforded to towns in the New World. The factories were in and around the areas where the workforce lived. One side of the street would be the factory wall; the other side of the street would be the workers houses. Unfortunately this lead to what, nowadays, is called "collateral damage"

Dresden burned so heavily for several reasons.

It was a medieval city with many wooden buildings.

There had been a dry winter in the region which meant many buildings were tinderboxes.

The population were not used to air raids and did not therefore have the knowledge that you need to put incendiaries out quickly

The raid had little opposition because its Anti aircraft defence had been taken away by the Germans for use on the Eastern front. Therefore the bombers were able to put their loads in a concentrated space with little or no opposition.

Dresden was not "chosen for destruction". This was a raid on an industrial centre which went exactly right with horrifying consequences due to many circumstances some of which I have listed above.

Why did so many people die?

The 35000 people that died (absolute top number using all available, reliable sources) did so because of the reasons above and the fact that Dresden's Air Raid Precautions were appallingly bad. There were few, if any, properly constructed public shelters despite money having been allocated for them which was spent by the local burghers on Air Raid shelters for their homes in the suburbs.

People therefore sheltered in basements of houses which, due to the firestorm above filled with noxious fumes and killed the occupants before the houses collapsed onto them and burned their corpses.

Many people have claimed in the last 62 years that Dresden was a quiet peaceable town going about its business and waiting for the war to end. Read the paragraphs below which are taken from research by myself and many others for the truth about "quiet, peaceable, nothing to do with the war" Dresden.

In early 1945 the war was far from over. The Allies were still camped outside the borders of Germany, V2 rockets were still falling. The Allies had just fought the battle of the Bulge where the supposedly defeated Germans suddenly punched a huge hole in the Allied lines, German Rocket and Jet aircraft were coming off the production lines and proceeding to rip the hell out of the allied air fleets.

It was an operation undertaken due to many reasons.

1. A request from the Russians at the Yalta conference in February

1945. General Antonov "We want the Dresden railway junction bombed"

Meeting between the Chiefs of staff as reported by an interpreter. Records kept at the Public Records office in Kew

2. It was a German base of operations against Marshall Koniev`s left flank as he advanced into Germany. (See above)

Captured German High Command documents from Berlin in 1945 state that "Dresden is to be fortified as a military strongpoint, to be held at all costs." These statements are also backed up by decrypts from Ultra at Bletchley Park.

3. Munitions storage in the old Dresden Arsenal.

4. Troop reinforcement and transport centre shifting an average 28

troop trains through the marshalling yards every day. Intelligence from Russian and other sources stored in the Public Records office in Kew

5. Communications centre. Most of the telephone lines connecting

High Command to the Eastern front went through Dresden.

6. Quote from The Dresden Chamber of Commerce 1944. "The work rhythm of Dresden is determined by the needs of our army."

There were 127 factories in the Dresden Municipal area. The most

famous of these was Zeiss the celebrated camera and optics maker. In 1945 it was turning out Bomb aiming apparatus and Time fuses. (If you think the Dresden China Works making those lovely shepherdesses are more famous, they are actually made in Meisen 12Km down the River and always have been.)

A factory that previously made Typewriters and sewing machines was making Guns and ammunition

The Waffle and Marzipan machine manufacturer was producing torpedoes for the Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe.

The Arts and Crafts workshops in the old town were using their woodworking skills to make the tail assemblies for V-1s.

Other factories were turning out such non warlike goods as Searchlights, Aircraft components, Field Telephones and 2 way radios.

Yet another quote, "Anyone who knows Dresden only as a cultural city would be very surprised to be made aware of the extensive and versatile activity that make Dresden ONE OF THE FOREMOST INDUSTRIAL LOCATIONS OF THE REICH. (My Capitals)

Sir Arthur Harris? A Post war exponent of the bombing campaign?

Nope both wrong.

It comes from the Dresden City Council Yearbook of 1942. The men who carried out these acts did so in the desire to make a world in which their descendants and countrymen, of whom I am one, could live in freedom from persecution and with a freedom to ask questions and form their own opinions. To those of you who feel it necessary to label them war criminals may I ask if you think that you could have asked a similar question under Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan?

Answer 2

Dresden was bombed because the British thought that it would weaken Germany and bring down there moral. The attack was lead by General Harris after Churchill ordered it. See attached link for more information.

Answer

It could be argued that the strategic bombing campaign against Germany became an instrument of revenge after late 1944, and that the resources put into area bombing of German cities didn't advance any meaningful war aims. Area bombing came about because the British simply couldn't hit precision targets at night, however they could bomb during daylight hours by late 1944 by which time the Luftwaffe had ceased to become a coherent defensive organisation. American daylight "precision" bombing was only marginally more effective than British night bombing, while US bombers carried a smaller bomb load. Quite often only the master bomber in US formations carried the highly effective Norden bombsights, the rest of the formation simply dropped their bombs when they saw their leader doing so.

It served little purpose bombing Dresden, and many other German cities without significant war industries, especially late in the war when Germany was already defeated. Potsdam ( a suburb or satellite city of Berlin) was flattened 6 days before Russian troops entered, so not only were German civilians killed unnecessarily, but so were British, Commonwealth, other Allied and American airmen. Quite possibly, the Allies bombed German cities late in the war to deny infrastucture to the Russians, not to assist the Russians militarily.

As for weakening German morale, there is no doubt that area bombing of German cities had an effect on civilian morale, however, it's not clear whether this affected the fighting ability of the German armed services. The area bombing did affect production of war materiel, but the Germans were able to adapt to the bombing to the extent that production increased in 1943 and 1944. The British would have been much better off continuing with "precision" raids like the Dambusters attack. However, "Bomber" Harris preferred the area bombing campaign as the Dambusters raid was costly in terms of aircraft and airmen- and the raid was wasted to a degree as Harris didn't allow follow-up bombing which would have been very effective, especially at preventing the Germans quickly repairing their damaged dams.

Answer 3

because he felt like it :P. *EDIT* Sensible answer below. The biggest problem with dealing with the matter of the bombing of Germany is that it is judged against modern morals and standards of behaviour. Civilians have suffered during war from the beginning of time. When the barbarians sacked Rome they slaughtered men women and children. When the French stormed Spanish towns during the peninsular war the citizens inside were killed and the towns raped and pillaged. The powers during the 19th century and the early 20th laid down ever more stringent rules about conduct during war trying to prevent these excesses but until the Geneva Convention came along there were no hard and fast "rules of war". In 1945 the Geneva Convention did not prohibit the general bombing of a town to destroy its industrial capacity. We have to look at Dresden in the light of the morality of the time. Some people in Dresden and elsewhere claim that the Bombing of Dresden by the RAF AND the USAAF is a war crime. In my opinion it was not

I am not in any way denying the fact that what happened in Dresden was horrific and appalling. I do deny that the men who undertook the mission have any crime to answer for.

The bombing of Dresden has been used since 1945 as a tool to beat the RAF about its conduct of "terror bombing" during WW2. The bombing of an industrialized town from the air in an attempt to destroy its industry or cause such loss of morale amongst its inhabitants that they ceased to work was NOT a crime by the Rules of War in 1945. The bombing of Coventry, London and other British Cities in 1940 and 1941 was also NOT a War Crime. Within Europe we did not have the "industrial areas" afforded to towns in the New World. The factories were in and around the areas where the workforce lived. One side of the street would be the factory wall; the other side of the street would be the workers houses. Unfortunately this lead to what, nowadays, is called "collateral damage"

Dresden burned so heavily for several reasons.

It was a medieval city with many wooden buildings.

There had been a dry winter in the region which meant many buildings were tinderboxes.

The population were not used to air raids and did not therefore have the knowledge that you need to put incendiaries out quickly

The raid had little opposition because its Anti aircraft defence had been taken away by the Germans for use on the Eastern front. Therefore the bombers were able to put their loads in a concentrated space with little or no opposition.

Dresden was not "chosen for destruction". This was a raid on an industrial centre which went exactly right with horrifying consequences due to many circumstances some of which I have listed above.

Why did so many people die?

The 35000 people that died (absolute top number using all available, reliable sources) did so because of the reasons above and the fact that Dresden's Air Raid Precautions were appallingly bad. There were few, if any, properly constructed public shelters despite money having been allocated for them which was spent by the local burghers on Air Raid shelters for their homes in the suburbs.

People therefore sheltered in basements of houses which, due to the firestorm above filled with noxious fumes and killed the occupants before the houses collapsed onto them and burned their corpses.

Many people have claimed in the last 62 years that Dresden was a quiet peaceable town going about its business and waiting for the war to end. Read the paragraphs below which are taken from research by myself and many others for the truth about "quiet, peaceable, nothing to do with the war" Dresden.

In early 1945 the war was far from over. The Allies were still camped outside the borders of Germany, V2 rockets were still falling. The Allies had just fought the battle of the Bulge where the supposedly defeated Germans suddenly punched a huge hole in the Allied lines, German Rocket and Jet aircraft were coming off the production lines and proceeding to rip the hell out of the allied air fleets.

It was an operation undertaken due to many reasons.

1. A request from the Russians at the Yalta conference in February

1945. General Antonov "We want the Dresden railway junction bombed"

Meeting between the Chiefs of staff as reported by an interpreter. Records kept at the Public Records office in Kew

2. It was a German base of operations against Marshall Koniev`s left flank as he advanced into Germany. (See above)

Captured German High Command documents from Berlin in 1945 state that "Dresden is to be fortified as a military strongpoint, to be held at all costs." These statements are also backed up by decrypts from Ultra at Bletchley Park.

3. Munitions storage in the old Dresden Arsenal.

4. Troop reinforcement and transport centre shifting an average 28

troop trains through the marshalling yards every day. Intelligence from Russian and other sources stored in the Public Records office in Kew

5. Communications centre. Most of the telephone lines connecting

High Command to the Eastern front went through Dresden.

6. Quote from The Dresden Chamber of Commerce 1944. "The work rhythm of Dresden is determined by the needs of our army."

There were 127 factories in the Dresden Municipal area. The most

famous of these was Zeiss the celebrated camera and optics maker. In 1945 it was turning out Bomb aiming apparatus and Time fuses. (If you think the Dresden China Works making those lovely shepherdesses are more famous, they are actually made in Meisen 12Km down the River and always have been.)

A factory that previously made Typewriters and sewing machines was making Guns and ammunition

The Waffle and Marzipan machine manufacturer was producing torpedoes for the Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe.

The arts and crafts workshops in the old town were using their woodworking skills to make the tail assemblies for V-1s.

Other factories were turning out such non warlike goods as Searchlights, Aircraft components, Field Telephones and 2 way radios.

Yet another quote, "Anyone who knows Dresden only as a cultural city would be very surprised to be made aware of the extensive and versatile activity that make Dresden ONE OF THE FOREMOST INDUSTRIAL LOCATIONS OF THE REICH. (My Capitals)

Sir Arthur Harris? A Post war exponent of the bombing campaign?

Nope both wrong.

It comes from the Dresden City Council Yearbook of 1942. The men who carried out these acts did so in the desire to make a world in which their descendants and countrymen, of whom I am one, could live in freedom from persecution and with a freedom to ask questions and form their own opinions. To those of you who feel it necessary to label them war criminals may I ask if you think that you could have asked a similar question under Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan?

Answer 4

Dresden was a communications hub. Many military units passed through it on their way to the eastern front. Thus the city was bombed in an attempt to help the Red army by keeping the Germans from reinforcing the front.

The bombing of Dresden may also have been a message to Stalin. A demonstration of the power of the UK and US, in other words.

Answer 5

I think that the bombing of Dresden was not a war crime, just payback!

It was not a war crime. Not one person was charged with any crime connected with it and it did not violate the rules of war.

LegallyThe "Rules of War" for WW2 were The Hague convention(Laws and Customs of War on Land (Hague, IV), October 18, 1907) which was ratified by the U.S. Senate in 1908 was the international standard at the time of WW2.These rules state. The officer in command of an attacking force must, before commencing a bombardment, except in cases of assault, do all in his power to warn the authorities.This was done by the USAAF and RAF.Leaflets were dropped warning that any German cities were liable to be bombed during hostilities and telling the residents to leave.It also states that "In sieges and bombardments all necessary steps must be taken to spare, as far as possible, buildings dedicated to religion, art, science, or charitable purposes, historic monuments, hospitals, and places where the sick and wounded are collected, provided that they are not being used at the time for military purposes.It is the duty of the besieged to indicated the presence of such buildings or places by distinctive and visible signs, which shall be notified to the enemy beforehand.The bombed cities of Germany all had industrial and military centres in them. Including Dresden. I do enjoy how people above stil spout the old lines of "Dresden was an open City" ( Complete BS. It had been designated as a military strongpoint) and "Dresden had no manufacturing" (Apart from the 127 factories making everything from bullets to tails for VI pilotless bombs to be fired indiscriminately at London and Antwerp)Were the civilian and religous centres marked and told to the Allies beforehand? NO!!!.So LEGALLY, the bombing was LEGAL by the "Rules of War" prevailing at the time.Morally?The worst thing you can do in war is fail to prosecute it to the fullest extent. Go after the enemy, harass them at every opportunity, kick them harder and harder until they give up. The Germans could have prevented the terrible losses they suffered from 1943 onwards by realising they were beaten and sending a message that they would give up. As they didn`t the Allies one aim was to beat them with the smallest loss of life on the Allied side. This is how you win a war. Anything else just causes more casualties in the long runTo give an analogy. if you found a man in your house about to rape your wife, would you smite him across the back of the head and say "excuse me old fellow, please go away"? NO!! What happens in that case is he turns round beats you senseless or kills you and still rapes your wife. If, However, you kick seven bells of S****e out of him until he wasn`t moving any more. Problem solved.

Answer 6

UNCONVENTIONAL EXPLANATION:

An often overlooked reason for the Bombing of Dresden even late in the War was that it was home to a plasma physics laboratory under Professor Max Steenbeck which developed particle accelerators for the purpose of transmuting Thorium 232 into pure bomb grade Uranium 233.

As early as July 1944 the United States warned Germany through the legation in Lisbon that unless Germany abandoned development of Atomic weaponry, Dresden would become the target of an allied Atomic weapon in October 1944. In March 1944 a B-29 bomber was flown to England and from there conducted daylight high altitude flights over Europe with radiation sniffing equipment to let Hitler know USA had the capability to attack Germany with high altitude bombers. This B-29 was spotted flying over Austria.

In August 1944 Hitler entered into a dialogue with London on the nuclear question through Romania's Mashall Antonescu whose political opposition had regular radio contact with England.

Whilst Hitler assured the western Allies he had abandoned nuclear weapons the work of the Steenbeck plasma physics laboratory did not cease. Dresden was bombed to prevent dangerous nuclear weapons technology at laboratories in dresden falling into Soviet hands.

Ironically Dr Rolf Wideroe noted in his autobiography that one particle accelerator device was rescued from the ruins of Dresden and driven towards Beyrueth, where it was surrendered to the forces of General Patton at Burggrub on 14 April 1944.

A similar particle accelerator was also captured by the Americans (US 1269th Engineers battalion attached to ALSOS) at Bisingen between 22-28 April 1945. It is at this point ALSOS and SS Lt General Dr Hans Kammler's paths also seemed to cross, as Kammler personally released the V-2 scientists from Oberammergau on 27 April 1945, placing him behind US lines.

The Nazis were using particle accelerators to harvest bomb grade fissile uranium in a process known as transmutation. Because of the high degree of sensitivity of this information during the cold war era, the western Allies kept the true cause for Dresden's bombing as a Cold War secret.

Prof Steenbeck and his boss Manfred von Ardenne however both defected to the soviets in 1945 leading the Russians to develop their own nuclear weapons and a comparable Tokamak plasma physics device.

CONVENTIONAL DISCOURSE:

General Sir Arthur Harris' over zealousness was the cause for the orders being issued to bomb Dresden and it never should have been. He received his punishment by not being recognized by the Brits for his efforts in the war.

Arthur Harris was not "punished" by not being recognised after the war.

Because he was so annoyed by Wishy Washy politicians, who had supported his actions during the war, refusing his men a campaign medal because of political expediency then he refused any honours himself over and above those his men received.

He was ordered by Churchill in the 50`s to take a Baronetcy.

I have posted my Standard Dresden answer below

The biggest problem with dealing with the matter of the bombing of Germany is that it is judged against modern morals and standards of behaviour.

Civilians have suffered during war from the beginning of time. When the barbarians sacked Rome they slaughtered men women and children. When the French stormed Spanish towns during the peninsular war the citizens inside were killed and the towns raped and pillaged. The powers during the 19th century and the early 20th laid down ever more stringent rules about conduct during war trying to prevent these excesses but until the Hague Convention came along there were no hard and fast "rules of war".

In 1945 the Hague Convention did not prohibit the general bombing of a town to destroy its industrial capacity.

We have to look at Dresden in the light of the morality of the time.

Some people in Dresden and elsewhere claim that the Bombing of Dresden by the RAF AND the USAAF is a war crime. In my opinion it was not

I am not in any way denying the fact that what happened in Dresden was horrific and appalling. I do deny that the men who undertook the mission have any crime to answer for.

The bombing of Dresden has been used since 1945 as a tool to beat the RAF about its conduct of "terror bombing" during WW2.

The bombing of an industrialized town from the air in an attempt to destroy its industry or cause such loss of morale amongst its inhabitants that they ceased to work was NOT a crime by the Rules of War in 1945. The bombing of Coventry, London and other British Cities in 1940 and 1941 was also NOT a War Crime.

Within Europe we did not have the "industrial areas" afforded to towns in the New World. The factories were in and around the areas where the workforce lived. One side of the street would be the factory wall; the other side of the street would be the workers houses. Unfortunately this lead to what, nowadays, is called "collateral damage"

Dresden burned so heavily for several reasons.

It was a medieval city with many wooden buildings.

The population were not used to air raids and did not therefore have the knowledge that you need to put incendiaries out quickly

The raid had little opposition because its Anti aircraft defence had been taken away by the Germans for use on the Eastern front. Therefore the bombers were able to put their loads in a concentrated space with little or no opposition.

Dresden was not "chosen for destruction". This was a raid on an industrial centre which went exactly right with horrifying consequences due to many circumstances some of which I have listed above.

Why did so many people die?

The 25000 people that died did so because of the reasons above and the fact that Dresden's Air Raid Precautions were appallingly bad. There were few, if any, properly constructed public shelters despite

money having been allocated for them which was spent by the local burghers on Air Raid shelters for their homes in the suburbs.

People therefore sheltered in basements of houses which, due to the firestorm above filled with noxious fumes and killed the occupants before the houses collapsed onto them and burned their corpses.

Many people have claimed in the last 60+ years that Dresden was a quiet peaceable town going about its business and waiting for the war to end. Read the paragraphs below which are taken from research by myself and many others for the truth about "quiet, peaceable, nothing to do with the war" Dresden.

In early 1945 the war was far from over. The Allies were still camped outside the borders of Germany, V2 rockets were still falling. The Allies had just fought the battle of the Bulge where the supposedly defeated Germans suddenly punched a huge hole in the Allied lines, German Rocket and Jet aircraft were coming off the production lines and proceeding to rip the hell out of the allied air fleets.

It was an operation undertaken due to many reasons.

1. A request from the Russians at the Yalta conference in February

1945. General Antonov "We want the Dresden railway junction bombed"

Meeting between the Chiefs of staff as reported by an interpreter. Records kept at the Public Records office in Kew

2. It was a German base of operations against Marshall Koniev`s left flank as he advanced into Germany. (See above)

Captured German High Command documents from Berlin in 1945 state that "Dresden is to be fortified as a military strongpoint, to be held at all costs." These statements are also backed up by decrypts from Ultra at Bletchley Park.

3. Munitions storage in the old Dresden Arsenal.

4. Troop reinforcement and transport centre shifting an average 28

troop trains through the marshalling yards every day. Intelligence from Russian and other sources stored in the Public Records office in Kew

5. Communications centre. Most of the telephone lines connecting

High Command to the Eastern front went through Dresden.

6. Quote from The Dresden Chamber of Commerce 1944. "The work rhythm of Dresden is determined by the needs of our army."

There were 127 factories in the Dresden Municipal area. The most

famous of these was Zeiss the celebrated camera and optics maker. In 1945 it was turning out Bomb aiming apparatus and Time fuses. (If you think the Dresden China Works making those lovely shepherdesses are more famous, they are actually made in Meisen 12Km down the River and always have been.)

A factory that previously made Typewriters and sewing machines was making Guns and ammunition

The Waffle and Marzipan machine manufacturer was producing torpedoes for the Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe.

The arts and crafts workshops in the old town were using their woodworking skills to make the tail assemblies for V-1s.

Other factories were turning out such non warlike goods as Searchlights, Aircraft components, Field Telephones and 2 way radios.

Yet another quote, "Anyone who knows Dresden only as a cultural city would be very surprised to be made aware of the extensive and versatile activity that make Dresden ONE OF THE FOREMOST INDUSTRIAL LOCATIONS OF THE REICH. (My Capitals)

It comes from the Dresden City Council Yearbook of 1942.

The men who carried out these acts did so in the desire to make a world in which their descendants and countrymen, of whom I am one, could live in freedom from persecution and with a freedom to ask questions and form their own opinions. To those of you who feel it necessary to label them war criminals may I ask if you think that you could have asked a similar question under Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan?

Ray

Answer 7

To make Germany weak, mental (because a lot of people died, a lot of people lost their home's) and weak because of the industry (Especially war industry) and Political ( A lot of Head Quarters were settled in Dresden)

Answer 8

Between February 13th and February 14th 1945, between 35,000 and 135,000 people and 3,300 tons of bombs were dropped on the city, that's all ino